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Epic Fail: How Mike Patton Murdered Faith No More
Jamie Thomson , July 22nd, 2013 05:22

30 years ago a man called Chuck Mosley joined Faith No More. Our man Jamie Thomson mourns the day he left

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In 1990, a music video for a song called 'Epic' offered a chilling vision of the future. It showed a young man dressed as a children's TV presenter leaping about like a rapping granny, spitting the kind of flow only advertising executives would find passable. Had I knew then what I know now, I would have said: "Oh Jesus, this is Year Zero in a 20-year musical nightmare that will end up with Limp Bizkit being one of the biggest bands on the planet." Instead, I merely thought: "Wow, they've really, REALLY fucked up one of my favourite bands."

A couple of years earlier, there was a nice little San Francisco band called Faith No More, a multicultural cross-section of Bay Area scenesters – punkers, funkers, meat-and-potato metalheads and future gay icons – who crashed into my world by virtue of a 3rd generation TDK of their second album, Introduce Yourself. I loved it immediately – it had heavy bits, it had funk bits (yes, I make no bones about it - as a 15-year-old, one of my most important quests was to track down a vinyl copy of the Red Hot Chili Peppers' Freaky Styley), it had washes of gothy keyboards, but most of all it was voiced with a charismatic, soulful melancholia I've rarely heard the likes of since. 'Anne's Song' – probably my favourite track – masquerades as a simple soundtrack for good times, a roll call of characters in the mood to party. But further listens uncover the angst, uncertainty and sexual politics that come with something simple as "going out with some friends". As a callow youth, it was a window into a world that thrilled and scared me in equal measure.

The owner of that expressive, maudlin voice wasn't long for the band, however. If memory serves, narcolepsy was cited as the reason for Chuck Mosley's exit in 1988 (I had my suspicions that this was code for something more sinister, but never did find out), and he was replaced by Mr Bungle frontman Mike Patton, whose acerbic whining couldn't be further from Mosely's ragged croons. However, Patton's white-boy rapping was just what MTV was looking for and FNM went from late-night cult act, where 'We Care A Lot' could occasionally be spotted on the likes of 120 Minutes at two in the morning, to enjoying the kind of heavy rotation from which superstars are made. I can't say for certain that the frontman's change of skin tone was what opened the doors for them, but they sure as hell sounded whiter. And, lest we forget, this is MTV we're talking about – a channel, in the 80s at least, not known for its groundbreaking multicultural agenda.

This, of course, opened the doors for any number of bands peddling their suddenly marketable rap-rock hybrids. A newly neutered Red Hot Chili Peppers tricked an unexpecting world into accepting Blood Sugar Sex Magick into their homes, which would then allow them to smear their execrable output over our lives for the next twenty years. In their wake followed bands of wildly varying quality - Mordred, Infectious Grooves, Living Colour, Primus, 24-7 Spyz, Heads Up, Urban Dance Squad – until beaten into submission, we eventually allowed the likes of Kid Rock, Linkin Park, Insane Clown Posse and Limp Bizkit to install themselves as the Black CNN for white folks.

And – oh God – how could I forget the countless dreadful provincial metal bands with serious delusions of grandeur – the kind that think the more strings on your bass you have, the more serious a musician you are; and kind of band that sees nothing out of the ordinary in performing a cover version of a someone else's cover. Yes, these are the fools who would bust out a version of 'Easy' in the middle of a set of otherwise stilted funk-metal accompanied by "Ooh, let's see what this preset does" keyboard flourishes. If Faith No More thought they were being challenging and didactic by paying tribute to The Commodores, they vastly overestimated their fanbase's resourcefulness and willingness to broaden their horizons. If anything, the opposite occurred – it gave Patton's acolytes a molehill of superiority to sit upon and broadcast their new-found expertise on soul music: "Well, I love 'Easy', of course, but nothing else really grabs me. (If it was any good, Faith No More would have covered it, wouldn't they?)" Indeed, interviews with Patton and his bandmates towards the end of the 90s displayed a marked unease at how simple it was to toss out half-formed ideas and have their audience honk and slap their flippers together in approval. They really should have called that 1991 live album: How Shall We Fuck Off, O Lord?

Worse still, the "I like Faith No More, therefore I'm better at music than you" crowd were given succour by journalists falling over themselves to heap praise on 1992's Angel Dust. It cropped up in album of the year lists and even a few 'most influential albums of all time' round-ups. Although I balk at the thought that dropping a Beastie Boys sample in the middle of a song is somehow cutting edge, I'll concede that the album is undoubtedly massively influential. Watch a few hours of Kerrang! or Scuzz these days and you'll see the tropes on this record recycled a billion times: choppy riffs, wailing backing vocals, faux-emotive piano breaks to drive home how blinking, bloody, ruddy heavy the rest of the heaviness is. I realise it's probably a bit unfair to blame a 20-year-old record for the stasis that modern rock is mired in, but, hey, you have to start somewhere.

By now, a few of you are undoubtedly apoplectic that I would shoot down the band that got you through school/ college/ life in whatever tedious market town it was you grew up in, and are leaping around (in your tie dye hoodies, naturally) with rage because I have dared to question Patton and co's genius. Here's the thing. You guys won. Faith No More's reunion in 2009 was attended by half the population of Europe. Empires fell, planets aligned, world peace was declared etc. And rock musicians nowadays – from rapey rap-metal cretins to slightly less offensive progressive metal cretins – have Faith No More's shitty, shitty music firmly embedded into their DNA: the influence is inescapable.

To his credit, however, Patton has spent his time away from the band building up a CV with impeccable credentials. He has worked with the likes of John Zorn, Buzz Osborne, Eyvind Kang, Otomo Yoshide, Bjork and Melt-Banana. His label Ipecac has provided a home and support for acts as diverse as the Melvins, Dalek, Neil Hamburger and his own supergroup, Tomahawk. By doing so he's managed to become one of the most potent driving forces in avant-garde and alternative music in the last 15 or so years (or, as I like to think of it, he has delivered the world's longest apology). When I listen to Fantomas or Tomahawk, I think to myself: “You know, it was over two decades ago when he ruined that band. I should really let it go.” But then I see him bouncing around like a twat in that video for Epic. Sorry Mike. You may indeed want it all, but you can't have it.

Hooligan
Jul 22, 2013 9:33am

I saw Chuck-era FNM a couple of times in the late-80s & they were a totally different band to the one that I saw at Brixton Academy a few years later. There's some footage online of Chuck guesting with them on the reunion tour & even sharing the stage with Patton on a couple of songs. It makes for quite uneasy viewing.

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Jul 22, 2013 9:45am

Introduce Yourself-era FNM should arguably been as massive as Jane’s Addiction eventually went on to become. They were never the same post Chuck. Let’s be fair though, after the success of The Real Thing, Mike Patton went out of his way to sabotage that success with Angel Dust. They disowned ‘funk metal’ quicker than anyone. It’s still an unsettling and uncompromising listen. Great band nevertheless, but it all went a bit downhill when Jim Martin left never mind Chuck.

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Schizo Stroller
Jul 22, 2013 9:53am

I had similar misgivings about Mike Patton back in the day. I was much more a fan of Chuck Mosely. But I also hated with a vengeance Nirvana. Mudhoney, great! Nirvana, fuck off! I'd say they single- handedly destroyed whatever the fuck 'alternative music' was before hand.

But perhaps had he lived Kurt Cobain might be doing something similar, nursing the less-commercial from his success. Something I might add Foo Fighter are not doing.

But then there's a theme here, another guy doing similar things to Mike Patton outside their commercial success is Thurston Moore. In fact many members of the ex-no-wave band that 'matured' into blandness but made a lot of money, seem to be doing this.

A kind of musical philanthropy. Something that doesn't seem so necessary in Europe with it's plentiful (well, up until austerity) funding.

Let's look at film, love him or hate him, George Clooney does similar things, makes a mint out of Ocean's franchise then makes Goodnight, Good luck. Ok film is more expensive so not quite the cutting edge of playing with John Zorn, or Derek Bailey for Moore. But that's economics.

So perhaps this is a particular American cynicism. If you do strike lucky, milk it for all its worth and then you can be a dilettante with your 'real' tastes, whilst everyone else works a day job for their 'experimental' art. Of course, due to the structure of this capitalist artistic philanthropy, to be able to give up the day job for many talented artists means being spotted and nurtured by someone who 'sold out' commercially but still has a taste for their roots.

It's the rough and the smooth.

So, yes, there was a rawer, 'realer' edge to Chuck's style, yes I prefer earlier Sonic Youth. But I'm glad these guys are around.

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Rodimete
Jul 22, 2013 10:00am

Sad to see you falling into the old "Faith No More beckoned Limp Bizkit" trap. Mike Patton himself has often spoken out against these bands, and FNM's influence on them usually goes no further than a churning bass.

And Primus were already a band before "The Real Thing".

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Jul 22, 2013 10:02am

Absolutely yes. I must admit that Angel Dust was my introduction to Faith No More, and I do like a fair chunk of the Patton era material (although The Real Thing never really grabbed me).
All these years later though - if I ever do listen to FNM it's almost always one of the first two albums. Patton always felt a bit too self concious. He's like, really arty yeah? Mosley just seemed cool. Just listen to Arabian Disco or Why Do You Bother. That's right. Woo!

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Jul 22, 2013 10:04am

The Atom Seed, anyone remember them? They were shit!

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Multifractal
Jul 22, 2013 10:05am

There's some fair criticism in this article: yes, Epic is dogshit.

Faith No More certainly inspired a whole heap of crap bands, but then name a massively influential band who hasn't. This is hardly a criticism than only applies to Patton, and so I feel it's a pretty flimsy pretext to slag him off, given that this is the main thrust of the article. Remember when Layne Staley died and the likes of Linkin Park, Staind and Adema were tripping over themselves to present the most gushing tributes?

Also true that some Faith No More fans have raging superiority complexes, but they're hardly the worst offenders. Ever met a Tool fan? A Morrissey fan?

For what it's worth, FNM are one of the few bands that have stayed with me since I was a teenager. I couldn't get into The Real Thing, but I rate Angel Dust through to Album of the Year as great records, full of memorable moments: hearing the strains of a Shostakovitch string quartet seeping through the confrontational chug of Malpractice, stadium rock with an undefinable dark undercurrent in Everything's Ruined or Ashes to Ashes, the twisted gospel of Just a Man etc. They may have popularised genre hopping, but what they had that the other bands didn't was Mike Patton's charisma to tie it all together.

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Tenbenson
Jul 22, 2013 10:19am

You sound bitter. And this isn't much more than clickbait.

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Martijn
Jul 22, 2013 10:25am

I grew up with Angel Dust, and only discovered Mosley years later. This was before the internet made such info readily available. Maybe this 'wrong order' has colored my perception but even after years of comparing I definitely prefer Patton's FNM over Mosley's.

Actually the article seems overly bitter to me. FNM is not responsible for the state of the current rock. You could pick any of a dozen other bands and claim the same. Current musicians have themselves to blame.

Still, an enjoyable read that brought back some good memories.

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Mike
Jul 22, 2013 10:41am

i'm a huge fan of the first two records, but you'd have to be the world's biggest contrarian to say they are better than the likes of angel dust. it's easily their best album on pretty much all levels.

it does make you wonder what would have happened to FNM if Mosely wasn't kicked out though. I highly doubt we'd be discussing the band right now.

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Jul 22, 2013 10:47am

Patton was a naive kid when he was recruited to FNM and suddenly became a massive star. So it's no surprise that some of that early Real Thing-era stuff is a bit embarrassing, and that the shift from Chuck would be jarring for existing fans. For me though, Angel Dust and King for a Day remain two of the greatest albums ever recorded (as does Introduce Yourself, for that matter), and the live gigs up until their initial demise and then the reunion shows were stunning.

I do love the Chuck-era stuff, but I fear there was little mileage in that lineup beyond IY, even if Chuck hadn't been slightly, err, sleepy. After a fairly clunky start, Patton brought a breadth and depth to the band that Chuck wouldn't have been capable of. I can't imagine Chuck doing anything like Pristina or King for a Day or even Jizzlobber.

An odd omission from this pro-Chuck article is mention of the fact that Chuck still continues to record, and that his album with VUA from a couple of years back 'Will Rap Over Hard Rock for Food' is well worth checking out.

As for criticising a band for the bands that followed in their wake...well, that's just a bit feeble.

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Jul 22, 2013 10:52am

In reply to :

Mosley also released a couple of albums under the guise Cement which were nothing special. Bizarrely, he also did a stint in Bad Brains.

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Jul 22, 2013 10:52am

Funk metal....yeuuuuccchh

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mrg
Jul 22, 2013 11:06am

In reply to :

This is true. The Cement albums are not so hot.

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mrg
Jul 22, 2013 11:10am

Can I also be pedantic and point out that the article is incorrect – FNM did not release a live album in 1997. They released their final studio album, Album of the Year. The only live album they released came out as a half-assed cash-in in the wake of the Real Thing.

I wish they had released a live album in 1997, as they were a much better live band towards the end.

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Andy
Jul 22, 2013 11:14am

Let's not forget the first album and the songs like Jungle, Mark Bowen or Pills for Breakfast. To this day they all sound dark yet driving. Yes, IY is a great record, full of winners. Of Patton's era, I always preffered their later material, King for a Day, Album of the Year over the Real Thing, though I like Woodpecker from Mars instrumental.

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Jul 22, 2013 11:51am

In reply to mrg:

you're right. it should say 1991. keystroke error.

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J M
Jul 22, 2013 11:57am

I've never really "got" Faith No More. The only decent band to ever make something out of their influence is the Dillinger Escape Plan (incidentally, if you haven't heard the EP they recorded with Mike Patton, I know your ears may not be open to it but it is worth a listen). But yes, Mike Patton's drivelling whine was certainly, and still is, mostly unpalatable to my ears. I LOVE Introduce Yourself though. And I disagree on but one other thing; I love "Blood Suger Sex Magick", even if it's the only RHCP release that I can say that about.

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Jamie
Jul 22, 2013 12:13pm

In reply to J M:

Re DEP: I didn't mind Under the Running Board when it came out - thought it was pretty challenging/entertaining in a Coalesce/Soilent Green way, but Calculating Infinity was more than enough for me. By the time Irony Is A Dead Scene came out, I'd have rather hammered nails in my ears than heard another scree-scree-sweep-sweep post-metalcore record, regardless of who was singing on it. Maybe I'll give it another listen, but goddamn, that is not a sound that has aged well, if you ask me.

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Post-Punk Monk
Jul 22, 2013 12:54pm

But... but... What if I though both incarnations of Faith No More blew?

http://postpunkmonk.wordpress.com
For further rumination on the Fresh New Sound of Yesterday®

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User
Jul 22, 2013 3:25pm

Well to each their own but regardless of your points I just don't see how anyone who listened to The Real Thing or watched the Live at Brixton concert could say that at least for that period of time they weren't absolutely incredible.

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Darren
Jul 22, 2013 3:45pm

Who gave this douche a computer! Citing Chucks skin colour as a reason for him leaving is pathetic. If you want to take the record exec route then it's probably down to his extreme drink and drug problems. This is neither a well researched or well written article, dropping in a final paragraph where you mention a few 'credible' artists is a joke. The fact is Chuck just wasn't up to the job whether he was good or not.

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Chris
Jul 22, 2013 3:46pm

He murdered them so that they could continue making great music? Faith no more with mike patton beame legendary, the songs were not written for stadia, they were just written by someone who was altogether superior to his predecessor. I'm struggling to believe that you have listened to king for a day or album of the year, I'm not saying you should prefer them as I do, but to say that he murdered this band is fucking idiotic.

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krk nordenstrom
Jul 22, 2013 3:53pm

I grew up on Chuck era FNM. Saw them open for the Chili Peppers in Santa Clara in 87. Chuck was terrible on stage. Tired, couldn't hit a note to save his life. That said, I love We Care A Lot and Introduce Yourself. They were that great "I know this great band you've never heard of" band.

The Real Thing changed that... and for the better. With Mike, they had a professional in the band. Someone with remarkable talent that they could actually count on. Someone who could sing. Someone who would write. Someone who would reliably perform. Someone who the others could count on to be a partner in it all.

Billy is a friend of mine. I know the story of Chuck's departure from the band and all I will say is, the article has got it completely wrong. Way off.

As for the bands of the era. I grew up in the 80's Bay Area music scene. There were countless bands that could have made it but didn't. Primus, FNM and Bungle were the only ones to survive and that was largely because of work ethic more than anything.

Psychefunkapus, The Limbomaniacs, Fungo Mungo, Bluchunks, Smoking Section and on and on. Bands with far more mainstream musical directions that should have been able to tap into the success that FNM, The Chili Peppers, Mr. Bungle, Primus, Fishbone, etc. all created.

Primus made it out successfully because they opened for anyone who would have them and played incessantly. There was no "we're headliners, dammit!" ego. Mr. Bungle charged forward because of FNM's success and Patton's sheer force of will. Faith No More succeeded because they evolved and played constantly. They were in front of fans all the time.

This article is the whining of a man in his 40's who misses "that unknown band that made him cool, different" but all that changed when they became popular. I'm less upset at what Metallica pulled with the Black Album than this writer is about FNM and The Real Thing... which was a huge step forward.

I'll take Patton doing From Out of Nowhere over Chuck doing Annie's Song any day.... and I really do like Annie's Song a lot.

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Mark T
Jul 22, 2013 3:55pm

In reply to Rodimete:

Well, Limp Bizkit WAS Faith No More's opening act on their 1997 tour. Granted, this was in the $3 Bill days, before the band completely became The Fred Durst Show. So they must have heard something they liked at some point.

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Richard Marcum
Jul 22, 2013 3:55pm

This article is what happens when an inferior intellect gets a hold of a thesaurus. Unfortunately for this person, no amount of florid or obtuse language can hide the failure of logic, as well as the narrow and myopic vision of the writer (I use that term loosely) regarding this band and it's place in the history of popular music.

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AndrewK
Jul 22, 2013 3:59pm

To me Faith No More is one of those bands you discover young and then quickly grow out of as you continue discover new things. Nostalgia aside, I can't think of a reason to listen to any Faith No More albums. While appreciate Mike Patton for getting out there and doing different things and being an advocate for the avant-garde, I find him insufferably 'Me Too.'

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Steve
Jul 22, 2013 4:09pm

couple of things - can you do me a tape of this '1997 live album' that apparently exists? and why have you used a term Public Enemy used to describe themselves as (Black CNN for white folks) as a description for what was actually termed in the media (as opposed to the collection of blog posts that apparently make up this site) Nu-metal? Other than that yr entitled to yr opinion i suppose.

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Pete
Jul 22, 2013 4:11pm

The irony of this article is that Chuck would have "murdered" FNM had he stayed in the band. His head wasn't in the right place at that time. That's why they kicked him out of the band.
I agree the albums Chuck is on are great but you cannot deny Mike Patton's musical abilities and what he brought to the band once he had time to work on the material. It's anything but arena music. Angel Dust and King for a Day are amazing. I really like Album of the Year also, especially revisiting it now and comparing it to other albums that have come out recently.

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John Doran
Jul 22, 2013 4:57pm

In reply to Steve:

The Live album is the 1991 Brixton one, mea culpa, or should I say himma (thomson) culpa. Anyway, onto more pressing matters... Chuck D did not call PE the "black CNN for white folk" although this is a reference to him.

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Taun Aengus
Jul 22, 2013 5:49pm

Jamie Thomson, you are a stand up person, good on ya. I totally agree with every word of your article. Looks like you stuck your finger in the wasp's nest. Stay right there, I'll run for the salve. Don't EVEN get me started, on some of these bands that are nothing but aping shadows on the wall of music.

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Georg Pétur
Jul 22, 2013 5:55pm

Good reading, even though I like Patton a lot better as a singer.

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julio
Jul 22, 2013 6:47pm

well, dont see clearly the point on the article...
1 - chuck was a nice vocalist and top performer, and his edition of fnm is a grooving band, but i believe that if he REALLY was the force of nature defined on the article above, he could have made a lot more than he actually did.
2 - the real thing is a transitional record, who happened to rip some aspects of RHCP sound pretty good in the right moment, what got it catapulted to the stars. it's in some ways a 'nevermind' in lesser scale, and nobody would blame our dear kurdt for the fact that thruston moore is not a middle aged zillionaire, would ya?
3 - the after moseley fnm did a solid 3 album run, and if you wanna talk about guilty parts on the birth of new metal, better look for 3 pretentious former meta-jocks from ny who did a little record called ill communication and maybe you get closer to target.
4 - if someone must be complaining about patton copycat instincts, it should be john zorn, but boy he PRODUCED the first steps of this, so it would be ugly spit on the plate where you ate, as we say here in brazil.
5 - in the end, you say that 3 records with mosley and then obscurity would be a better cv to fnm than the one they have now. but there's no offer of further argument on WHY their music is, per se, such an offense, except for the fact that patton started on the band imitating EXACTLY the guy you're praising, that they made a so-so cash in live album around the same time and that a lot of assholes wear t-shirts with their names on it. sorry, a lil' shallow as a reason to dislike patton after all the hard and good workhe did thru the years, be as an artist or as a musician/producer/ labelhead.
i'm sorry that people from your prefer band from long ago kicked a friend with a smile and gone to greener fields. but, man you REALLY should let it go...

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Mark T
Jul 22, 2013 7:10pm

I appreciate your passion, but it's hard not to read this as willful contrarianism. Patton could do everything Mosely did with one lung tied behind his back... he had a much more powerful singing voice, and aping Anthony Kiedis was just a small, small part of his repertoire.

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Steve c
Jul 22, 2013 7:30pm

Personally, I thought The Real Thing went downhill straight after 'You to me are everything'

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Mike
Jul 22, 2013 8:40pm

This reads like a long form troll comment. It's absurdity is its brilliance.

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jbj
Jul 22, 2013 9:03pm

this is just puerile clickbait trash that wouldnt have been out of place in an issue of blender magazine, right down to the gutless off-the-shelf racial references. i thought the quietus was set up to provide a sober antidote to this type of shit

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jbj
Jul 22, 2013 9:06pm

In reply to jbj:

that it's actually a strikingly interesting topic to write about makes the tryhard adolescent way its written even more irritating. ill concede that the joke in the title is pretty swish

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Eoin O'Sheazer
Jul 22, 2013 9:09pm

The only wrong thing he did was shit in a hair dryer... and even that was "bad ass"...

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austy
Jul 22, 2013 10:41pm

4 words:
Mr. Bungle
Disco Volante...
Patton can incur a minor genocide for all I care and be ok in my book just for that album... oh and those facebook morons can go fuck themselves up their own retarded assholes if they can get their head out of them first... No surprise the virtual cesspool that fb has become and those comments above are proof positive.

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Antenna Villain
Jul 22, 2013 11:41pm

Didn't the byline read "Written by Muck Chosely"? I'm kidding. Actually, I really enjoyed this article, but that's probably because I'm such a cynical bastard. While I, of course, strongly disagree with his anti-Patton sentiments, I thought his arguments were well thought out and presented in a funny and entertaining way. I also think it's cool that he's using the classic method of drawing page views (i.e. talking mad shit on a beloved pop culture figure) in order to draw the ire of Faith No More and Patton fans. I think Patton himself would enjoy it on some twisted level. Mosley certainly would.

If you enjoyed hating this article, here's a shameless plug for my own Faith No More articles:

FNM: The Comic Book (A page by page review)
http://antennavillain.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/faith-no-more-the-comic-book/

4 Reasons FNM "Flopped" In America
http://antennavillain.wordpress.com/2012/08/19/4-reasons-faith-no-more-flopped-in-the-states-the-directors-cut/

My tribute to FNM karaoke 
http://antennavillain.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/the-top-5-faith-no-more-karoke-bombs/

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Matt
Jul 22, 2013 11:59pm

Your article lacks respect. Respect for any readers who might disagree with your opinion, and respect for the choices that Faith No More themselves have made to further their career and creative output. In the end an article written in this tone only begs the questions: who are you to put yourself above so many other people? And: if you know how the best music should be made, why don't you release your own songs, find your own audience and let others enjoy what they enjoy?

Live and let live, man. Voicing your opinion: good. Not liking certain stuff and/or people: good. Acting like you're better than other people: not good.

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Ben
Jul 23, 2013 12:24am

Blaming a band for other bands' later music is idiotic. Secondly...do bands really sound black or white and does anyone who likes music really care?? You have some issues Jamie. I agree The Real Thing is the FNM that holds up least, and Introduce Yourself is probably their best work, but post-Mosely FNM was still great b/c it was always Gould, Bordin, and Bottum's band anyway. Read an interview, Patton was just blending in with the music in a way that fit best. The band would have grown and changed it up a bit no matter who was fronting them. If you want bands that never change look somewhere else. You can't be dumb enough to belief you own article, you just wanted someone to read something you wrote. Congratulations, I read it.

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kk
Jul 23, 2013 12:42am

I would likely have never become the huge FNM that I am if Patton hadn't took over singing duties. Moseley leaves a lot to be desired. There's no way The Real Thing would have been the album that was without Patton's contributions. Just can't imagine FNM would have had the success that they ended up having without the change.

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ophu
Jul 23, 2013 5:45am

OMG, like, the world is now coming to an end. Someone break out the nuclear bomb shelters and don't forget to put on "...and Justice for All".

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Rodimete
Jul 23, 2013 8:48am

In reply to Mark T:

FNM also supported Guns N'Roses on their "Use Your Illusion" tour. It doesn't have to be a linear thing. None of us knows why the band chose Limp Bizkit on that tour, or even if it was a band decision. But what Mike Patton has said about the nu-metal rap-rock bands afterwards, that is well known.

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Mouse
Jul 23, 2013 9:05am

There is no accounting for tastes. There IS however for spelling. How on earth are we supposed to believe anyone who can't even spell Mosley's name?

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John Doran
Jul 23, 2013 12:54pm

In reply to Mouse:

A fair point well made.

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Mathieu R
Jul 23, 2013 7:50pm

You can't shoot down the singles from The Real Thing for creating funk metal, then shoot down Angel Dust as well for ditching funk metal altogether. Angel Dust is too odd to be boiled down to merely "funk metal" or "plodding heaviness". And the oddness goes well beyond a beastie boys sample (huh?). There's quasi-opera vocals, guttural growls, samples of native american chants, pipe organ, white trash crooning...

You can dislike Mike's huge cock of a voice, but that doesn't take anything away from the massive middle finger that was Angel Dust.

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Rogues3000
Jul 23, 2013 8:32pm

Really thought provoking piece liked it, for me in the southern hemisphere living color was much more available than FNM in 87/88 so its interesting, agree that the real thing hasn't stood the test of time ,Patton is a workaholic though I'll give him that its like watching a small car go down the wrong side of the highway when hes onstage & touring with tomahawk, write more.

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Spacious
Jul 24, 2013 12:49am

If you had seen "Faith No More" live back in the "Chuck" days, you never would have written this article.

That was the only "Faith No More" I ever knew. I was dumbfounded when they suddenly became huge. What the hell happened? Oh they replaced their vocalist with a charismatic singer who could actually carry a tune.

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Andy
Jul 24, 2013 1:22pm

By the way guys,while you're at it, it would be nice if you publish a similar piece on how Billy Corgan created a milestone modern rock band that the Smashing Pumpkins were in the mid to late 90's, and now keeps ruining it's legacy by having an ultimate excuse of, hey, he did it all mostly by himself anyways, and how he keeps stamping SP name on his boring spiritual prog (not that I don't like prog).The title could be something like Rise and fall of...you get the picture. Ok,rant over.

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FlamingTelepath
Jul 24, 2013 5:34pm

If you agree with the silly premise of this article, then as prosecutor you have to name the other four members of the band in your 'murder' allegation -- or do you actually believe Mike Patton held them at gunpoint and made them make music they didn't also believe in?

There are few innovative bands you could name that are "innocent" of shitty bands following them down the trail they blazed.

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selfsurface
Jul 28, 2013 10:29pm

I love both eras, personally. But please acknowledge that the music for The Real Thing was written before Patton even joined. It was only on Angel Dust that Patton actually got to work on the material.

Other than that, this article was pretty poorly thought out. Judging an entire era of a band via a couple of singles and the horseshit that they unintentionally spawned, as well as arguments like "errgh, Beastie Boys samples" that might as well have been scraped off Wikipedia without even listening to the track you're referring to.

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HeyLyla
Aug 21, 2013 8:40am

I think you're wrong about Kid Rock, Linkin Park, Insane Clown Posse and Limp Bizkit being direct descendents of Faith No More. They may namecheck them but they're really all just diet Rage Against The Machine. Now if you'd like to talk to talk about a baand that spawned some awful awful imitators, it would be them.

Also, all those shitty funk metal bands were beholden to the RHCP rather than Faith No More but that blows a hole in your basic premise, so...

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Craig O'Neill
Aug 28, 2013 1:41am

Yeah well, chuck Mosley ruined Courtney loves fnm lol.

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George Pehrson
Sep 7, 2013 1:51pm

Pretty interesting and well argued article actually, tho I don't like to admit that as I am equally a fan of Pattons FNM as Moselys. I think Pattons (ongoing) legacy should be guaged more by his subsequent solo/collaborative work than his influence on lesser following bands, and of course with FNM itself. I have often compared and contrasted the two FNMs in my mind and both have compensating differences. Both are very worthwhile artists with Moselys strengths being more humane relaying of personal relationships, and Patton's darker societal thought and imagery. Personally I see similarities too unflattering of both of them, with lyrical no no's and the occasional bizzare indulgence in their attempts to convey meaning. They could be equally as wacky then both with words and visuals, check out video of We Care A Lot for Moselys equally colourful bouncing and outfit! Not really that different to Epics cartoonishness. Lastly, Patton in my opinion was contributer to a progressing and varied musicality, albeit darker at times. And for a much more different personality there was actually a good deal of the original FNM that was preserved. Taste, ey?

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Bud
Sep 19, 2013 7:45pm

Chuck Mosley sucks, Mike Patton is the greatest! This article was written by a piece of white.

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Sep 19, 2013 7:48pm

In reply to Bud:

...meant to write "piece of shit" ...not sure how auto-correct managed to fuck that up.

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Oct 5, 2013 4:22pm

So, basically what you're saying is that you liked them before they were popular?

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Trenton Lambert
Oct 8, 2013 3:30pm

Who is this douchebag to determine ultimately what "good music" is, and what isn't? If you like the Chuck era, listen to their first two albums and leave it at that. If I said "I only like the pre-Wylde era of Ozzy", then I wouldn't go on some dumbass, moronic, totally biased rant dissing Zakk Wylde, Ozzy Osbourne, all similar music and all the fans. "Good music" isn't a genre of music. It's a judgement made by each individual listener as to what they personally like to listen to. You're a prick.

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Trenton Lambert
Oct 8, 2013 3:38pm

If you absolutely hate this kind of music, then make your own. Do something better. Prove to us and the other bands like Faith No More, Primus, Infectious Grooves,how much better of a musician/composer you are. Then MAYBE we will all acknowledge this article as legit.

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victimschoice
Oct 12, 2013 5:15am

Are you out of your mind? Angel Dust and King for a Day are goddamn MASTERPIECES.

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Mark Fleischhaker
Oct 17, 2013 6:57am

A series in events in no particular order as a result of the first comment I read on the third last time that we met (THINK about it...we've met before) has led me to believe that pigeons (Chuck) spread disease and mess up the place. Change places with furniture the way a ghost would do it. Mike Patton is GOD. Please continue to blind yourself to the fact. It makes us ALL SMILE.

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Douglas
Nov 17, 2013 11:06am

I wish to see you punched repeatedly about the face and neck. Following this, I will pay a homeless man minimal monies to make mouth love to you. This is fair.

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McFlymo
Dec 3, 2013 12:04pm

Hi Jamie. I'm guessing what you're really saying here is that you don't like Faith No More's - The Real Thing album?

This article is the most unsubtle attempt at trolling FNM fans I've ever seen on the internet.

... Angel Dust over-hyped? Angel Dust was pretty much a flop in the US. So where were they over-hyped? But then you concede that Angel Dust is a very influential album. So ... the hype was ... sorta about right then?

Then you write a load of garbled journo-speak about Korn and FNM covering Easy. Rhetoric with no substance. Totally your biased (and at that point irrational) negative opinion.

Essentially ending with you cancelling out your whole argument by saying you can't blame FNM for the shit bands they influenced. And besides, you admire Patton's credentials.

Pointless ill-informed rubbish.

Maybe I could get a job writing for you guys, I don't have any experience and I have a vague grasp on the English language, but you seem to print any old bollocks, so I'm definitely more than qualified.

Should I submit my CV?

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Dec 3, 2013 12:13pm

In reply to George Pehrson:

Well argued?

Please re-read this paragraph:
"And – oh God – how could I forget the countless dreadful provincial metal bands with serious delusions of grandeur – the kind that think the more strings on your bass you have, the more serious a musician you are; and kind of band that sees nothing out of the ordinary in performing a cover version of a someone else's cover. Yes, these are the fools who would bust out a version of 'Easy' in the middle of a set of otherwise stilted funk-metal accompanied by "Ooh, let's see what this preset does" keyboard flourishes. If Faith No More thought they were being challenging and didactic by paying tribute to The Commodores, they vastly overestimated their fanbase's resourcefulness and willingness to broaden their horizons. If anything, the opposite occurred – it gave Patton's acolytes a molehill of superiority to sit upon and broadcast their new-found expertise on soul music: "Well, I love 'Easy', of course, but nothing else really grabs me. (If it was any good, Faith No More would have covered it, wouldn't they?)" Indeed, interviews with Patton and his bandmates towards the end of the 90s displayed a marked unease at how simple it was to toss out half-formed ideas and have their audience honk and slap their flippers together in approval. They really should have called that 1991 live album: How Shall We Fuck Off, O Lord?"

What is this bollocks?

It's like a word stew of bitterness. There's nothing in this even remotely connected to reality: "more strings on your bass" - essentially saying, "ugh I hate Korn and pretentious metal bands" Yes. OK. So what the fuck has that got to do with FNM or Patton?

"Faith No More thought they were being challenging and didactic by paying tribute to The Commodores" Did they? Citation needed.

"it gave Patton's acolytes a molehill of superiority to sit upon and broadcast their new-found expertise on soul music: "Well, I love 'Easy', of course, but nothing else really grabs me. (If it was any good, Faith No More would have covered it, wouldn't they?)"" Has anyone ever actually uttered those words? What a massive amount of wank.

"Indeed, interviews with Patton and his bandmates towards the end of the 90s displayed a marked unease at how simple it was to toss out half-formed ideas and have their audience honk and slap their flippers together in approval" Yea? Evidence of this? Any shred of it? Cheers.

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Leilani
Dec 8, 2013 2:54am

I think you also failed to mention that his voice is
Amazing and can't be compared to the like of
Chucky who actually failed faith no more because
Of his lack of direction and commitment.
I also think you will find that the epic video was actually
A very sinister and sarcastic point of view from mike
Patton and not meant to be taken seriously
Or be an example of what the band or mike patton
Is about!!
In actual fact when glam rock was still at a peak
Mike patton bought back the 80's with his spandex aerobic
Getup!!
Thank god!! For mike patton taking on the front
Man position otherwise you wouldn't be talking
About FNM at all and it wuld have been just another
Try hard in hit wonder band instead of
Being "album of the year"

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Wolf
Dec 18, 2013 7:05am

A ridiculous, immature, and ultimately ignorant article.

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Mick
Jan 16, 2014 2:38pm

I think it's fairly obvious that Chuck Mosley was a limited frontman in comparison to Patton's versatility and vocal range.

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jose
Jan 18, 2014 4:21am

Haha this article sucks, mike didn't murder fnm, i see your point but ur a needle in a haystack and i cant agree cuz i love pattons music n the only reason fnm is enjoyable now, yes ppl have different opinions but your article n approach is wrong n as u can see, no one agrees with you

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jose
Jan 18, 2014 4:28am

Also to mention, i have a great respect for patton to see that, kuz hes a lead singer in a band he dosnt feel like that makes him more than the band, his words "the voice is an instrument" chuck let the band down for abuse n thinking he was more than the band, if he stayed fnm would of failed as a band, there words.

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mario
Mar 14, 2014 10:43pm

yep, the man has gone full retard, which of course you should never do. ever.
bless him.

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Brett A
Mar 15, 2014 4:14am

I had to scroll up after reading to make sure I wasn't on TheOnion. While some of the songs on "We care a lot" and "introduce yourself" were good, NEVER once did I think Chuck Mosely could sing, at all... Those were studio albums, albeit low budget albums, but still studio albums. The "singing" on those albums is literally the best that he could do, and it sounded like a tone deaf drunk singing karaoke.

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Grecski
Apr 2, 2014 2:08am

I only know one other person in the universe that thinks the same as this SHMUCK! A guy I went to high school said the same thing, Mosely made FNM and Patton was a pretender............... now at least I know that there are two WANKERS in this world.

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Ken
Apr 8, 2014 8:28am

You fail at music appreciation. Nice link bait troll article. Loser.

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Lee
Apr 23, 2014 3:53pm

What a ridiculously ill-founded article.. Seriously.. I love Chuck era FNM, and, unlike you, i couldn't give a toss what colour Patton is- i thought he was a woman when i first heard From Out of Nowhere open up the Real Thing. If the rest of the group had limped along without finding a replacement you could have written an article entitled ' How Chuck Mosley Killed FNM ' - it's two different groups, like it for what it is. Your article is peppered with shallow, embittered and borderline offensive assumptions and judgements. And you glaringly miss the point or indeed the irony of a lot of Patton era FNM- That's your opinion, you're entitled to it just as i am to point out you are a bit of a fool.

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stuart
May 1, 2014 1:08pm

Lmfao shite article that nobody agrees with apart from tone deaf Chuck!

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aimee love
May 11, 2014 3:49pm

rich mullins wrote a song called awesome god back in the day before I got asked to leave the church and I remember pastor rick used to warn us not to use the word awesome in our everyday language unless we were talking about god...yeah so maybe I went out of my way to break that rule...
but anyways mike patton did the same thing with the word epic
and to this day I can't help but think of him whenever I read or hear the word
Mike Patton is God

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Jason
May 22, 2014 10:10am

"But then I see him bouncing around like a twat in that video for Epic."

You have completely missed the point. He was taking the piss out of Anthony Kiedis in that filmclip and thus spawned a feud that lasted for years.

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sham690
Jun 9, 2014 2:06pm

In reply to Jason:

Sorry but Patton changed the bad for the better.
I started with mosely, enjoyed the music , wasnt crazy about his vocal but introduce yourself had something different, something good.
The real thing is not a great album lets be honest but after that things got really good.
I saw them live 3 times in 2 years and they were so solid live.
I have listened to all Patton's side projects, Mr Bungle, Tomahawk, Peeping Tom, Mr bungle etc, all very different but equally clever.
His solo album in Italian is amazing.
I'm sorry but if Mosely was so damn good he would be still around making music.
Pattons soundtrack for the place beyond the pines has some beautiful pieces of music.
The man has a lot of talent.

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Bic Late
Jun 19, 2014 4:36pm

Agree with Tedbenson. Clickbait crud. More fool me - I clicked! This ignores the fact that Patton had no musical input on that first FNM album he did and wrote everything in two weeks. The hate seems to be based solely on the cringeworthy video for Epic, in which he comes across as Andrew WK's granddad, and not much else.

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Gary
Jul 6, 2014 1:58pm

This article is arse piss. Incredible bollocks.

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Sh*ttyG*rdens
Jul 7, 2014 1:21am

I saw Chuck Mosley ruin Bad Brains once. Maybe I should write an article about that...

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Ariane
Jul 11, 2014 10:51am

Enlightening article. What do we learn? XY does not like MP. If there's something you don't like - nazis, doughnuts, mike patton, ... - don't waste your energy on them. It'll only make 'em stronger.

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Matt
Aug 23, 2014 8:57pm

Wow I can't believe what I am reading! Mike Patton is easily one of the most if not the most multi-talented vocal genius's of our time. FNM in my opinion was his weakest project but still way better than Mosley era FNM. Seems like any drunk dude could sing Mosley style vocals.

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air framer
Sep 25, 2014 11:34pm

the last thing the guy who wrote this gave five stars to was 90 minutes of pompous, tedious doom metal. look it up on the guardian website. don't be bothered by this, patton fans

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Joseph
Sep 26, 2014 10:41pm

Ouch!!!!

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mo
Oct 14, 2014 4:42pm

really liked your sentiments on mosley. i completely agree. for me , its two different bands, two different people. joy division, new order. ill never get the emotion and otherness i got with mosley from the cold, reptilian patton. that said, mosley had to go - and someone had to step in. who would you have rathered? at least patton came in with his own vision, took the band to the top and then to the left and then left further even. its was exciting. almost a twin peaks thing in that they had the public eye and still kept it fucking weird. certainly missteps and some of it absolutely cringeworthy. you got some balls though blaming all of that shitty music on patton/fnm because they influenced others. why not blame every shitty band on the beatles? on chuck berry? on their moms? it was like blaming some nice guy named jesus for the crusades and all the atrocities that happened in his name. its a bullshit argument and really was just an opportunity for you to offend literally just about everyone whose ever even heard of FNM. esp that bit about Easy and the Commodores. who is your audience here bro? your ego? i'd take an unthinking moron who likes easy only cause patton "told them it was good" over someone who thinks as fucking wrong as you do. do you even read this shit before you submit it? you're a fucking cliche man in your obviousness. we get it, you make your own opinions. this one was embarrassing. also why are you playing dumb to pattons approach in Epic? that was a calculated move, a mocking the trends at the time and playing his cards smart - it worked. a weird fucking song and it got tons of attention. he was still working Bungle at that time, so its not like this was some preschool effort - it was a joke and you seem to be willfully missing the punchline for the sake of having something write/bitch about. btw- as much as i cannot stand patton fanboys, he was recently recognized to have greater range than anyone from diamanda galas to axle rose in the pop scene. might want to show the littlest bit of respect and not essentially call him the granddaddy of limp bizkit or ICP

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ninetynine
Oct 20, 2014 8:07pm

So the thing is, they where very popular with Patton. Fact this is the first I ever heard of Mosley but from what I'm seeing here not allot of people think he was really worth keeping. So we get the point you don't like change, but the fact is Rap was on MTV before Faith no more so skin tone had nothing to do with it. Yes MTV has an agenda, it has changed from back then but the fact is they have always just used kids to do the same thing, to make what appears to be a good agenda into an agenda popularizing the mega rich so the kids learn to bow down to their every wish. SURPRISE!! Hollywood are Government Lackey's. That includes most of the Music industry. Faith no more creepy look into the future however never really was about looking into the future. I can't see where you get that actually, there is nothing futuristic about it but what there is, is allot of CG work that to me peer more into the subconscious with all the secrets that it tries to expose as you work your whole life trying to hide them, such is the whole meaning of the song. The fish at the end is a symbol of the person slowly dying never really feeling like he / she belongs (Fish out of water).

Have you ever even seen the video or where you just at work one day talking about it with some friends that saw it and hated it?

Seriously we get the point, you hate change, you bashed the change of the band and with it you also managed to throw a dis to the alternate music world as well. Good for you, but if you really want to be so hateful and talk so much dreg, please I beg of you, learn about it a little so you know what you're talking about first.

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nsmit
Nov 25, 2014 10:06pm

It sounds like this guy's over-thought the fact that the whole album: 'the real thing', was put together not long after patton joined the band, and was really quite young himself, so the whole sound was sort of immature.
My understanding is that angel dust had quite a lot of record label input, as the band were touring a lot and time was spent doing that, which is what they lived for at that time.
That's what shines through to me, post angel dust, their albums belie their live performances, and pattons voice started to lose the whineyness.

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jSun StarChild
Dec 1, 2014 9:57am

There is a special place in my heart for the Introduce Yourself album, but really.... FNM would have NEVER had gotten as far as they did if it wasn't for them dropping chuck and bringing in Patton. But with that said, truth be told.. Patton never took FNM that serious. He joined it to help promote Mr Bungle. Now days he has had a change of heart with and will be releasing a new album April of 2015 (as you all know). Im excited to see what the album sounds like, the Im not a very big fan of the track 'Mother Fucker'.

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Nicholas Renz
Jan 30, 2015 5:12pm

Chuck Moseley fnm and Mike Patton fnm are both great. I will concede that epic was shit, but as a whole the real thing was still a great record. Also the real thing was a starting point for Patton to find his stride with the band. I personally feel that fnm had a great progression throughout their different records. Patton has such an expansive body of work and it all points to the fact that he is nothing if not a true artist.

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Feb 14, 2015 10:01am

Haha, the writer of this piece is 12 shades of cunt.

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Mike Patton Is God of FNM
Mar 4, 2015 3:04am

EPIC FAIL YOUR ARTICLE! You look pretty dumb now that Faith No More is making a huge impact on the music scene. The FNM with Mike Patton. The only FNM. He sings Chucks songs better than Chuck.

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Donovan Bell
Mar 11, 2015 12:42pm

Faith No More are actually one of my favourite bands at the moment. There is an easy listening element to them for me, as my taste generally ranges from heavy metal like SOiL and Korn right down to the softer stuff like Deep Purple and Thin Lizzy.
http://www.tortoiseproperty.co.uk

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kris
Apr 16, 2015 2:20am

I would have thought a murder would follow almost instantaneously with a death of the murdered, but considering Faith No More produced a hell of a lot more music, loved and adored by millions of fans worldwide, I would say your whole article is just built on the premise that you dont like Faith No More's Mike Patton and preferred the original singer Mosley.

Big deal really. Who cares? I'm sure some people prefer Depeche Mode over Metallica or Slayer over Mozart. Its no news to the majority of us who can grasp the concept of personal taste.

Furthermore you havent really 'shot down' the band, you've just told us you dont like them. It doesnt really mean anything, considering people judge music by listening to it, not by some article written on the internet.

Whats the point in all this Patton bashing anyway? Yeah everyone, even the most hardened FNM fans know he's always been a bit of a show-boy. So what.. Incase you havent realised, to gain popularity requires more than just musical talent.

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timmy
May 31, 2015 4:57pm

What an insanely illogical, self-righteous, pretentious "article". So, let me get this straight: one video made in 1990, and inevitably overplayed by MTV and commercial radio is the reason for Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit? Wow. That's some pretty far reaching guilt by association. FNM obviously blows your hip, edgy mind because you clearly don't understand the appeal or the timeless quality of their music. Like all great bands, they were a constantly evolving entity which never once compromised on anything. They could've done different versions of "The Real Thing" for the rest of their career, but instead chose to do whatever the fuck they wanted, infusing dozens of different styles and influences. You never once mention "King For A Day...Fool For a Lifetime", most likely because you never listened to it. A brilliant album, and the first one which Patton really was the creative driving force behind it. I'm so glad you approve of Patton's side projects, and that they are able to rise to your level of taste. God forbid you finding them too commercial, or having any influence on Limp Bizkit.

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Thaddeus Lovelock
Jun 12, 2015 5:06am

Mike Patton is such an annoying character.

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Deric
Jul 28, 2015 2:37am

Ok so you have the unique perspective where Chuck was your favorite when the consensus is he sucked. The band apparently sort of felt this way too that they got rid of him and got Patton, but you in your infinite wisdom know so much better than they do. Okay:).

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Emmessell
Sep 7, 2015 1:50pm

I just don't get the Chuck Moseley thing. Mike Patton on the other hand is insanely talented, and I as approach middle age (no longer hoody but suit wearing) the Faith No More resurgence makes a lot of sense to me. They weren't (post-Real Thing) and aren't now pandering to any particular crowd, especially not the notoriously fickle, record-sale hating metal crowds. They can literally do anything, so they do. From Jizzlobber to covers of Burt Bacharach. That is genuine talent. And as I look back at my youthful self with elements of both of nostalgia and distate, it seems they are doing exactly the same.

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Mike
Oct 5, 2015 5:10pm

You surely knew you were going to be mugged as soon as you posted this. Look....I like the Chuck stuff too, and there is always the tendency to think the record that got you into a band is their "best". Your opinion that FNM with Patton is "shitty" is just an articulation of that tendency. FNM became a much better band with Patton - in virtually every criteria. More experimental, more progressive, better concerts, more sales, more influential - you name it. To your defense, you even say a lot of those things, but do it some sort of back-handed way that suggests that because more people dug it, more musicians were influenced by it, and larger crowds were pulled in to see it, that somehow that made it shitty. The band that you got into changed, and I can understand your disappoinment, but in the end you need to get over it because the material they put out afterwords was just much better. Here we are 20 years later, and if there had been no Patton in FNM - no one would even have a clue who they are. Instead, they just put out a VERY RELEVANT new record and embarked on a tour that is one of the most sought after tickets to get. Neither would've happened with Chuck.

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Oct 19, 2015 12:58am

5559906

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HENJIN75
Mar 29, 2016 5:29pm

Jamie, everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, mine is that yours is the stuff that toilet paper is made for. First off, I'll admit to jumping on "The Real Thing" bandwagon. Afterwards while exploring other albums I found out that Chuck was the original singer, and was excited to hear some of the older material. Disappointment ensued. The man was monotone, and the one tone wasn't that great. He seemed way more into wearing the loudest clothes ever, and less about the music. You don't have to like Mike, but it seems like most of the world does. You're opinion is the real epic fail whatever your name was.

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