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Margaret Thatcher: Still More Alive Than She Herself Dared To Dream
David Stubbs , April 8th, 2013 11:14

Your celebrations at Margaret Thatcher's death are misplaced, says David Stubbs, for "Thatcherism never died, was never truly even un-elected" (originally published April 8th 2013)

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As I write, I can practically hear the cheering of friends across the social media resounding like church bells. Ding dong... you know the rest. YouTube clips of Morrissey's' 'Margaret On The Guillotine', Mogwai's 'George Square Thatcher Death Party', Hefner's 'The Day That Thatcher Dies', even The Exploited's 'Maggie Is A Cunt' are popping up like black, inflatable anti-tombstones all over the internet. In parts of the North and North West, in Wales, it's possible that the bunting is being prepared for street parties.

Meanwhile, prepare for a counter-wave of nauseously grovelling and skewed official tributes, for the BBC to behave at its reverential, establishmentarian worst, and, God help us, a ceremonial funeral with military honours. I don't blame anyone for feeling euphoric at Mrs Thatcher's death. I feel it myself. I vowed I'd be restrained the day she died but instead tapped out an instinctive Facebook update expressing the wish that, if anything, she'd clung onto life longer if only to prolong her suffering. For a great many, this is a merry, cathartic day, a day for bad taste jokes and dancing jigs on the grave of the she-grinch who stole Britain - and let no one be in any doubt about the anger and depth of feeling from which this springs. In a review of The Iron Lady last year for The Quietus, I tried to encapsulate that sincere and suppurating antipathy.

"You presided over the dismantling of the UK's manufacturing base, sold off the country's commonly owned silverware to a bunch of money-grubbing, pinstriped opportunists, practically eliminated the country's social housing stock and eroded the welfare state by unleashing the worst of which the British people are capable – fear, ruthless greed and small-minded loathing, racism, xenophobia and homophobia – adding insult to injury by administering all this with a sickly, acrid, old-fashioned dose of castor oil moralism. It is just that you rot in senile purgatory and die a lonely death."

I'll begrudge no one their parties. But, as I suspect most of those partying already know, Thatcher may be dead but Thatcherism is more alive than ever – more alive than perhaps even she herself dared to dream.

Those of us of a certain age will recall the rise of Thatcher and her malign, divisive policies which she seemed to pursue with an obscene and ugly glee. Punk had represented a violent irruption in UK rock but it was politically vague and naïve, with its parading of swastikas, and figures like Paul Weller and Ian Curtis actually having voted Tory in the 1979 General Election. Both punk and Thatcherism felt like two sides of the same coin, both an attempt to sharply remedy the moribund condition of mid-70s Britain.

With post-punk, however, came a more sombre and smouldering realisation of the implications of Thatcherism and her desire to "roll back the frontiers of the welfare state" and bring the supposedly uppity unions to heel. What she and her followers, including the Tory ideologue Keith Joseph, were hellbent on doing was to tear up the fabric of postwar Britain and sell off the pieces. The short, sharp shock of early Thatcherism triggered an immediate countercultural response, from the explicit likes of The Beat to The Clash to the more implicit dissent of New Romantics, who flourished defiantly in the areas hit hardest by Thatcherism's enforced post-industrialisation. Everything about the new music of the 1980s – forward-looking, racially diverse, permissive, insolent, gleefully engaged in the "promotion of homosexuality", to use one of the more vile phrases of the Tories - flew in the face of the tetchy, small-minded, prudish, selfish flight behind the net curtains of pre-Beatles mores represented by Thatcher and her ilk.

Having plunged the country into deep unemployment in the early 1980s, many thought she would be a one-term leader. However, with the the unhelpful formation of the SDP drawing away moderate Labour supporters, and the ideologically progressive but shambolic state of Labour under Michael Foot's kindly leadership, coupled with success in the Falklands War, Thatcher was served a landslide victory in 1983. There is an argument to be made that the Falklands was, if a regrettable, absurd and tragic episode, a necessary campaign that resulted in the downfall of a fascist regime in South America, an argument not to be dismissed out of hand. However, the tone set by Mrs Thatcher during the campaign was one of repugnant, nationalist triumphalism, which helped seal Tory self-confidence and braying, popular delusion.

From this point onwards, Thatcherism consolidated as a perma-force. The spiky countercultural opposition of the early '80s lost its edge, its scathing temperature. In 1981, Thatcher had capitulated in the face of a possible miner's strike but, in 1984, took on Arthur Scargill and the NUM and won what most could not help but regard as a watershed victory, achieved with the frightening compliance of the police, and from which there seemed genuinely to be no turning back for the trade union movement. The whole country seemed to settle into a defeated torpor, with the decline in real wages offset by a boost in credit and a housing bubble and a general, cultural air of frivolity which has never really dispersed. Ironically, the supposed rise of barrow-boy yuppies and the right-to-buy policy for those living in council houses helped feed one of the sustaining myths of Thatcherism – that it was good for "ordinary" people, and emancipated the working classes. The privatisation of public assets was similarly sold as being a gift, or opportunity for regular folk (remember the "Tell Sid" campaign when British Gas was privatised?), with only increasingly marginalised sceptics raising the question of whether it was really a gift to the public to sell them something that had belonged to them in the first place.

There was a foretaste of the euphoria some are experiencing today in 1990, when Thatcher was forced to retire, following her obduracy over Europe and a cabinet fed up with her divisive, hectoring management style, in particular her chancellor Geoffrey Howe. The ding-dongs resounded that day too. The universally applauded release of Nelson Mandela that year, whom Thatcher insisted to the last was a "terrorist", only served to bolster the feeling that she was on the wrong side of history, an outdated Aunt Sally. However, the Tories would hang on for seven more years, even if in their last months they were a Dead Party Walking. Another moment of euphoria when Tony Blair was elected in 1997 – a landslide victory, an economy perceived to be in good health, the greatest opportunity for a reforming Prime Minister since World War II and Attlee.

However, it would slowly become clear that Tony Blair's pliant, Murdoch and business-friendly, transatlantic toadying administration merely set the seal on Margaret Thatcher's defiant, ultimately prophetic words - "There is no alternative" - a sleight of phrase which the entire, increasingly managerial and self-interested political establishment had now taken to heart. Thatcher herself recognised this – she once described her greatest achievement as "Tony Blair". New Labour, under both Blair and Brown, would see no rolling back of the rolling back. Corporations became ever more powerful, unions dwindled in influence even as they continued to bankroll what was increasingly laughingly known as the "Labour" party, under whose aegis inequality in the UK actually increased. The political goalposts had been shifted permanently to the right. The anaemically sanguine earworm of D:Rream's 'Things Can Only Get Better' had now been replaced by Johnny Rotten's caustic disillusion; "Ever had the feeling that you've been cheated?"

Come the 2010 election, there was the paradox of Thatcher clinging to her life in her sad dotage, barely sentient enough to realise the permanency of her legacy as Cameron, Clegg and Brown vied for the votes of a disaffected electorate with the blandishments of competing estate agents. Those who groaned cynically about how they were "just as bad as each other" could not have anticipated the almost Flashman-like viciousness of the Cameron-led coalition and its programme of austerity measures ideologically designed to push the welfare state back still further than even Thatcher had felt able to. No sign of the working classes supposedly freed up by Thatcherism in the 1980s as a claque of Bullingdon multimillionaire elitists reassumed the roost.

A list of the sins of the Cameron administration would be as long and as familiar as your arm. The demonisation of the working classes, the deliberate attempt to divert blame for Britain's current economic woes onto "benefit scroungers", the risible, black-is-white insistence of the "we're all in this together" mantra. Some would argue that Cameron and the gaggle of tumescent, wonky ideologues egging him on are going further than even Thatcher would have desired to in their assault on the NHS. This, she professed to consider sacrosanct in her own time. The idea that the neoliberal, market-driven ideas that have blighted Britain since 1979 only happened because Margaret Thatcher happened to be born may also be inaccurate. These were abstract forces, raging from across the Atlantic and in rightwing think tanks of the day. Whether they would have been pursued with such repellent, unabashed, populist gusto by another politician is another matter, however.

Whatever, the gist of the calamity besetting UK and the rest of the world can be traced back to the policy of deregulation, in finance, tax law and ownership of public utilities, for which Thatcher was among the foremost of those to set in train over 30 years ago. The idea was somehow that in taking away from the state you gave to the "people", enhancing their individual economic freedom and lifting them up through their private enterprise. Free up the "wealth creators" and their profits would cascade like manna upon us all. That was the basis of her popularity.

Of course, no such thing has happened. Instead, that which once belonged to us all has been transferred into the hands of a tiny elite, with astonishingly little protest, or consciousness, from a populace still cowed by those magic, hectoring words, "There is no alternative". A recent Guardian report showed that this elite is hoarding £13 trillion in offshore accounts. Were even some of that money properly collected by the state in due taxes, it would be spent on public services, public works to the immeasurable improvement of life as currently being endured by the majority of ordinary people.

Thatcherism, however, in its demented passion, caricatured public spending as bureaucratic and somehow stifling to ordinary people. So, there it sits, uninvested, as millions cry out for unemployment – an insanity Marx described as "surplus capital, surplus labour" - these elites won't invest the money because they don't think that we, the people, are good for it.

Over the coming days, there'll doubtless be a lot of "love her or hate her, good points/bad points" debate in the more mainstreamed, "balanced" media, inclining respectfully, no doubt towards the idea that she was ultimately a formidable stateswoman who effected real change in the UK. Well, too right (too right, indeed), she did. There'll be historical contemplation of battles won and lost decades ago.

What needs addressing as a matter of absolute urgency right now, however, is that Thatcher 's legacy is one of gross, almost comically staggering inequality. We are not all in this together. We are heading down shit creek while a tiny few of "them" are up on the clifftop holding all the paddles. Inequality, inequality, inequality, stupid. If there's good to come from her death, beyond a few street parties, it's that we realise that Thatcherism never died, was never truly even un-elected. It's time to shake ourselves, and others, out of the daze into which we were collectively not so much handbagged as headbutted back in the early 80s. Thatcherism was the worst thing to happen to this country since the Second World War and it'll carry on happening to us unless we do something about it.

Chris
Apr 8, 2013 3:27pm

Excellent piece and a fine final paragraph.
This loathsome politician clearly had a pathological hatred of ordinary working people and used the full forces of the state to crush any opposition. As the article pertinently reminds us, the legacy of Thatcherism is still with us today with the current load of goons sitting in Parliament. It must be resisted.

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Jules Young
Apr 8, 2013 3:31pm

This is one of the most well written and socially truthful things I have read in a long time. Everyone ought to read it.

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Rory Gibb
Apr 8, 2013 3:34pm

Hear hear.

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Tony Tales
Apr 8, 2013 3:35pm

Quite right. I bet Miliband and all those other cunts trot out grovelling tributes. Thatcher was such a lover of freedom she sucked up to Pinochet, Saddam, Suharto and the House of Saud, happy to flog arms. The only tear she ever shed was for herself when her own Tory scum turned on her. Good riddance bitch

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Marcello Carlin
Apr 8, 2013 3:38pm

Chapter and verse please on how Weller voted in '79.

Odd how no one besmirches Harold Pinter for having done exactly the same thing at the same time.

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Dan John
Apr 8, 2013 4:06pm

"I vowed I'd be restrained the day she died but instead tapped out an instinctive Facebook update expressing the wish that, if anything, she'd clung onto life longer if only to prolong her suffering."

- This actually made me gasp, what the hell, seriously? What's wrong with you?

This whole article is shocking, the usual far left-wing fantasy without any useful ideas (as usual). If you want to beat Thatcherism how about you come up with a coherent and practical alternative to gloabalised neoliberal capitalism? Been 30 years to come up with one? How's it going? All this impotent rage for all these years...it gets you nowhere.

I'm really disappointed The Quietus published this on the day she died. The quote I highlighted is shameful and shows an ugly part of the soul of the author.

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Mark Aaron
Apr 8, 2013 4:12pm

This is a terrific piece of journalism.

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Chris
Apr 8, 2013 4:23pm

In reply to Dan John:

Unfortunately these are the feelings that many people have of that morally corrupted woman thanks to her many evil policies. There was no middle road for dialogue, it was the all out distruction of the working class that she wanted, and look at the sorry mess we are in today.

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Zoyd
Apr 8, 2013 4:23pm

Excellent piece.

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Angrier
Apr 8, 2013 4:27pm

Great piece, good that you mention this state of the nation is not due to just one woman, it was right wing think tanks and business elites that fuelled the change, for Reagan done most of the same things as Maggie Thatcher, and this guy was not intelligent enough to make this change on his own. The sad truth is that politicians really do not have that much power, they are cradled in the arms of corporations. If they do something to step out of line funding will be dropped, and funds have made politicians for a long time now, as well as mainstream media, owned by the corps. Look at Vietnam for godsake, I know its a bit of a jump, but you can't say that country is communist anymore. Ironically Thatcher lied in Parliament about the funding and training given to the Khymer Rouge to fight the Vietnamese in Cambodia, ripping that country apart. Well done Maggie, you were a stand up lass you were. Spit on it

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Beth
Apr 8, 2013 4:28pm

really well written & happens to be exactly what i think too. thanks for putting it out there

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Beth
Apr 8, 2013 4:31pm

really well written & exactly what i think too. thanks for putting this out there, this is what everyone needs to focus on

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Marti Delon
Apr 8, 2013 4:43pm

Fabulous article, this sums up how I'm feeling pretty much, especially the bit about Thatcher may be dead but Thatcherism is alive and well, that is the scariest and most truthful thing that has been said so far.

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Nick Triplow
Apr 8, 2013 5:00pm

Excellently written, David.

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Daniel
Apr 8, 2013 5:00pm

Spectacular article. Shame the general population do not share or understand this perspective.

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Bram
Apr 8, 2013 5:07pm

Fantastic article, very well written.

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Apr 8, 2013 5:09pm

Well written but for any of us who were there, its a tall order to think of the Labour Party in the early 80's as idealogically progressive. I'd be interested to see what you make of Scargill when he pops it.
I guess that's the difference with politicians pre-90's, you actually knew what they stood for!.

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Mr Nice
Apr 8, 2013 5:15pm

In reply to Dan John:

Oh, have you forgotten just how dear Margaret delighted in setting the British people against each other? Left wing? Nah, just a reminder of what was and what could be... I salute The Quietus for this piece. We've never had it so good!

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Apr 8, 2013 5:34pm

In reply to Chris:

Yes, she wanted to turn them into middle class! At least financially she succeeded in many cases.

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Dan John
Apr 8, 2013 5:45pm

The massive disaster that was the left-wing and Labour government in the 70's had absolutely nothing to do with her rise, let's just ignore that. She's a totem for the victory of neoliberal, globalised economics over the protectionist, inward-looking union-led economics that screwed the country. The left has never got over this fully.

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Apr 8, 2013 6:06pm

This article pretty much sums up the long and the short of Thatcherism and its obstinate persistence. Well worth reading to take a short break from the entirely natural celebratory mood that many of us feel today.

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hungryanteater
Apr 8, 2013 6:08pm

little biased but well written. touch cnutish for wishing her alive to suffer more.
if she hadnt existed, do you think labour would have done any better?

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Lynton Allen
Apr 8, 2013 6:12pm

The course of politics was about to change. Regardless of what we think of Thatcher, I remember the Wilson Government. I remember the three day week and the lurching from crisis to crisis of British industry, the power cuts and social unrest. Northern Ireland unrest was at its' height and this was a difficult country to lead into change. Right or wrong, change was inevitable. So it was Thatcher. We put her into power. Also remember she was the first woman Prime Minister and remained elected for the longest time in the 20th century.We kept her in power. Whatever we think of her and if it is bad, then surely we should still rise above the cheap vilification and show the same respect as we would for any death. Have we not moved on?

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satchmo76
Apr 8, 2013 6:13pm

In reply to Mr Nice:

'Margaret On The Guillotine' = Morrissey solo not The Smiths

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Hx
Apr 8, 2013 6:52pm

Spot fucking on.

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Shugevara
Apr 8, 2013 7:00pm

Now mummy's deid why don't we try and get her "dogs of war" son Mark tried for attempting to start a coup. Thats what mummy taught him. Good effin riddance

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Dr Matt Lamb
Apr 8, 2013 7:02pm

An interesting perspectice although (pushes glasses up nose in boffin mode) 'Margaret on the Gullotine' was a solo Morrissey song not The Smiths as stated here!!

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Apr 8, 2013 8:47pm

It's a pity that the people who write these articles have nothing better to worry about...we are all better off now than we've ever been in our history...Margaret Thatcher contributed towards that...there is no class system anymore...not as it existed when I was growing up...and im not old eyt ;-D everyone is greedy and wants the benefit of living the good life without putting the effort in..we had to work hard for everything we wanted...nothing came easy..if everyone got of their lard a...s and did a decent days work we'd all be better off for it.

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Vulj
Apr 8, 2013 9:54pm

Morrissey wrote 'Margaret on the Guillotine', not The Smiths.

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Sam
Apr 8, 2013 9:56pm

In reply to Dan John:

Dan John, a call to protest is an idea, and if you look back across the century you will find it has changed things. Civil rights has vastly improved in western nations, whether in regards to women's rights or blacks or other ethnic minorities. Generally you are correct the Left is not organised enough. But also take into account a lot of these ideas have been attacked from all sides, I mean the words 'socialism' or 'communism', they are so loaded they have lost all meaning. What I would say though is that neoliberal capitalism or free market capitalism whatever you want to call it is completely misleading too. Because if economies were truly free they would not be state aided, eg RBS. Likewise with our railways. And if privatisation is vastly better, then why are gas companies being fined for ripping off their customers? Privatisation enables companies to make as much profits as they possibly can, but the state steps in frequently to help them achieve these aims.

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Rx
Apr 8, 2013 9:59pm

In reply to :

Awesome - Show Me The Jobs!

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Dan John
Apr 8, 2013 10:26pm

In reply to Sam:

protest for what exactly? I know what all the lefties are against, but what are they for with regards to economics? The panacea of tax avoidance? Trident? Keynesian dreaming? No 'pure' capitalism is desirable with zero regulation and monopolies / cartels; the level of corporatism in different areas of the economy is the area of debate. i.e. banking bailouts are not capitalist, they are corporatism too far, while simultaneously the cause was the lack of regulation, i.e. not enough government intervention. More competition in the energy market would be a good thing, but how to enforce 'sufficient' competition is the debate.

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constance
Apr 9, 2013 12:32am

In reply to Dan John:

Hey dan, how's the macroeconomic dream working out for you? 2008 and 2010 must have been a bit of a shit for you.

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constance
Apr 9, 2013 12:32am

In reply to Dan John:

Hey dan, how's the macroeconomic dream working out for you? 2008 and 2010 must have been a bit of a shit for you.

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Mr. Spooky
Apr 9, 2013 7:27am

Great article that really as much about what’s happened in America since Reagan as it does about the UK since Thatcher.
The last paragraph says it all!
Expat Yank!

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Mr. Spooky
Apr 9, 2013 7:27am

Great article that really as much about what’s happened in America since Reagan as it does about the UK since Thatcher.
The last paragraph says it all!
Expat Yank!

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Dan John
Apr 9, 2013 8:08am

In reply to constance:

what macroeconomic dream do you think I have? I do think that well regulated globalised capitalism is a good thing, most realistic people do. If you have an alternative please explain in detail and I will be very willing to listen.

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constance
Apr 9, 2013 8:35am

In reply to Dan John:

'It's better than nothin.' What an emphatically robust arguement. I'm sure copernicus felt the same. Tell me, how come not one single macroeconomist saw 2008 coming? Or even realised that markets don't work perfectly? Don't know if you've been doing shit like reading the papers , but the current solution to the post-08 structural debt crisis that's preeeetttyy popular is debt socialisation. You might suggest that such policies betray the free market; I'd argue that it's just another paroxysm of neoclassical economics and that unless we begin to rethink economics beyond the orthodoxy of supply and demand then we are truly fucked.

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Grant
Apr 9, 2013 8:56am

In reply to Marcello Carlin:

It's not even true that Weller voted Tory. In the interview he gave to the NME after leaving The Jam he claimed to have voted Labour at the '79 Election which unless I'm mistaken would have been the first in which he was eligible to vote. Harold Pinter on the other hand openly (and somewhat apologetically) admitted to voting Conservative so you're right.

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Chris
Apr 9, 2013 9:18am

In reply to Grant:

Obviously a lot of people voted Tory in 1979, shit happens. As I'm in reasonable mode I can see why it happened, the winter of discontent and all that. The mystery is that she was voted in again, and again.
As is said, every tin pot dictator needs a little offshore war to bolster popularity at home, the Falklands was perfect for her, thanks for nothing Argentina!

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Ted G
Apr 9, 2013 9:31am

Really good piece. Only thing I'd like to add is that while it was deplorable that Tony Blair's New Labour continued to regretfully pay lip service to the bankers and the city it did invest a lot of this money in vastly improving our schools, hospitals and lifted people out of poverty via the minimum wage. It wanted the best of both worlds and wasn't prepared to make too many sacrifices and the country is paying the price for that now. The piece broadly paints the tories and New Labour with the same brush and I'm not sure this is wholly correct.

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Dan John
Apr 9, 2013 11:39am

In reply to constance:

I'd genuinely like to know what the alternative is. In detail. Various people warned about the housing bubble in the US, Roubini for example. Markets have never worked 'perfectly', nobody pretends they do. Capitalism is the worst economic paradigm except all the others that have been tried; the left have been trying to 'rethink' economics for 30+ years to find a new economic model that could work, with zero success.

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RandBmanthinks
Apr 9, 2013 12:21pm

Good article David. Have tweeted a link. The final paragraph is particularly pertinent.

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Constance
Apr 9, 2013 12:31pm

In reply to Dan John:

Erm, no one predicted Lehman Brothers, essentially because all parties involved believed they'd come up with some ruddy good system where you'd have to be a fool to cheat it. Lulz.

None of which is an arguement 'for' macroeconomics or indeed against an alternative. And it certainly does not exclude a critique of that system, especially when the enormity of its failings are today so conspicuous. I respect your position, funnily enough, but would urge you to think harder. I think you are correct in your earlier assertion regarding energy and regulation but see little evidence of any movement toward such thinking. At any rate, I guess I'll either see you in a post-apocalyptic soup kitchen eating our own limbs or at the Virgin Space departure lounge for the last flight to Mars Colony 1.

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Nige
Apr 9, 2013 12:47pm

Excellent piece. It's too easy to forget the crude stupidity of some of her policies and how this thinking still permeates the political and economic elites. We should be rioting and not partying!

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Gwyn
Apr 9, 2013 5:26pm

Despite the enormous harm she inflicted on many of us, its very harsh to open the bubbly because of the death of a human being, dickhead or not.
A few bad points in here, particularly concerning the SDP. The problem there was that Labour moved radically to the left in the same way the Tories moved radically to the right under Thatcher leadership (Tories in the 60s were to the left of New Labour) their policies included more nationalising, withdrawing from the EU and giving the unions even more power. The SDP were actually immensely popular and were predicted to win 600 seats in 1983 , until some rocks in the South Atlantic changed things entirely. I believe they would have been good in power, look at continental European countries, they never had an equivalent of Thatcher (although they're not the same as they were in 1979) and they seem fine,the Euro crisis is to do with the Euro. Also Dan John, of course union power in the 70s needed to be curbed, they could call 'wildcat' strikes without a ballot which is both unfair and hurtful to the economy, but Labour wanted to curb union power anyway, they tried to in the 60s but failed. Lastly, if Weller couldn't vote in 79 then maybe he expressed some sort of desire to vote Tory if he wanted to.

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julio
Apr 9, 2013 5:51pm

oh, dave,great piece, BUT... you talk about what maggie done for england, but you're so unfair! by playing blind on the turning of football hooligans and the least talented of an oi! revival on the roots of a new fascism revival, courtesy of the national front, she was essential for the creation of a strong cultural background for the whole neo-nazi scum we have all over the planet.
so even here in brazil, if you or any of your friends ever had to hear shit, take escape route or the jolly good severe beating from some stupid neo-nazi skinhead, you know that mrs. thatcher legacy lives on your wounds. WHAT A LADY! WHAT A LEGACY! WHAT A C..T!!!

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Apr 9, 2013 7:07pm

In reply to Dan John:

This is a terrific response to a crap (and plain nasty) piece of journalism.

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Grimm
Apr 9, 2013 7:53pm

music in the UK was better under thatcher than later on.

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Sam
Apr 9, 2013 9:35pm

In reply to Dan John:

Dan John, there are such a huge amount of things the left is for I really don't have the time to go through them on a music zine web page, but if your interested read up on marxism and anarchism that operated in the lead up to the civil war in spain/writers such as Proudhon and Bakunin, or you know what, just read The Communist Manifesto. Although this is pretty outdated it is a good place to start, because you will soon find that communism has not existed anywhere in the world in terms of how we know it, mostly due to propaganda and indoctrination. I personally think, more than economic theory, we need to talk about community, because this is the thing most eroded by what could be called Thatcherism.

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Andy Hudson
Apr 10, 2013 3:00pm

In reply to Dan John:

'This whole article is shocking, the usual far left-wing fantasy without any useful ideas (as usual). If you want to beat Thatcherism how about you come up with a coherent and practical alternative to gloabalised neoliberal capitalism? Been 30 years to come up with one? How's it going? All this impotent rage for all these years...it gets you nowhere.'

Of course globalised, neoliberal capitalism has been so successful hasn't it. Through its never ending compassion everyone has a useful place within society, everyone has a roof over their head and sufficient to eat, everyone who is unfortunate enough to be disabled or sick is cared for. Philanthropy is alive and well amongst the wealthy. it has all worked so well for us during that 30 years we have been wringing our leftist hands so uselessly. Bunker down with your wealth while you can because history does repeat itself and there is a restless mood amongst the populus. The capalist idea has failed, it staggers on its last legs, and it is imploding. When the end comes it will be ugly and there will be a reordering. We can not know what form the world will have at this time but it will be a simpler and fairer society for the survivors. When revolution comes wealth will not save you.

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Dan John
Apr 10, 2013 3:10pm

In reply to Andy Hudson:

say what now?! Should I stock up on guns and cans of food then?! I'm not claiming globalised neoliberalism capitalism is perfect, merely the best choice of the options available. Moaning about it is only useful if you have a better alternative in mind, please tell me?

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John
Apr 10, 2013 11:50pm

In reply to Dan John:

You actually think we have a choice of economic policies?
Sorry but the corporate oligarchy will not allow any alternatives.

Thatcher was a just a spokesperson for the powerful who continue to run roughshod over this world in an unending attempt to increase their profits.

Just ask how wonderful she was to the people of Chile when she supported the rape/torture/murder of its citizens by her best friend Pinochet. She had to make an example of those brown people who attempted to run their own governments. "No alternative" indeed.

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Julian
Apr 11, 2013 9:11am

Britain's nowhere near as "neoliberal capitalist" as you're all making out. We have a large public sector and even after the current changes we have a large welfare state. The Labour Party never stopped introducing benefits. The real problem Britain has is a dispossessed and decultured working class. That is largely a result of Thatcherism, and New Labour, even with all the billions it spent, did little to sort the problem out.

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Lora T.
Apr 11, 2013 10:21am

In reply to Dan John:

The Daily Fail comments section is THAT way...

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kevin graham
Apr 11, 2013 12:52pm

great article.

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Johnny Nothing
Apr 12, 2013 11:28pm

Oh fucking grow up. All of you. Bored already.

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Johnny Nothing
Apr 12, 2013 11:34pm

When I added that comment my laptop hadn't loaded ANY of the comments on the article. But hey I'm full of scotch as usual and I'm letting it stand.

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Johnny Nothing
Apr 12, 2013 11:39pm

And it was supposed to come under the BBC Ding Dong article. My fingers ain't doing the job they were designed for. I'm walking away before I do any more damage.

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Johnny Nothing
Apr 12, 2013 11:39pm

And it was supposed to come under the BBC Ding Dong article. My fingers ain't doing the job they were designed for. I'm walking away before I do any more damage.

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kant
Apr 13, 2013 12:15am

look im going to stop reading the quietus.this is the final straw.first the david bowie /tin machine worship now this.BOWIE ,THATCHER..who gives one.is it a celebration of what it means to be ENGLISH .get a life

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Dan Cockling
Apr 13, 2013 12:24am

70s punk was "politically vague and naive"....err have you forgotten Crass?

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Martin
Apr 13, 2013 3:02am

In reply to Mark Aaron:

In democracy she won the election. Why?

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Martin
Apr 13, 2013 3:02am

In reply to Mark Aaron:

In democracy she won the election. Why?

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Angstious
Apr 16, 2013 1:43pm

RIP Frank Tovey, who made some of the finest cultural responses to Thatcherism and all the other -isms that don't address the real needs of the people.

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iamthestrobe
Apr 19, 2013 5:43am

In reply to Marcello Carlin:

Damn fool

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Elvis '88
Apr 22, 2013 3:06pm

And now the cynical ones say that it all ends the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just squeezed the life from his only son
And how it's only voices in your head and dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn't angry with this pitiful discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up for punishment
And then expect you to say thank you straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because youve only got the symptoms, you haven't got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose heads like a tin-can
Filled up with dreams then poured down the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being blown to bits or beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame

Well I hope you live long now, I pray the lord your soul to keep
I think I'll be going before we fold our arms and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life could be so cheap
Cos when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down

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Jun 7, 2013 1:37pm

In reply to Dan John:

What about Keyensian capitalism you goon

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Bill
Jan 3, 2014 8:42pm

Thatcher was a witch.
What say we exhume her body and burn it at the stake?

I know... I know. Thirty odd years too late.

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